[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

What would have happened had he simply not certified the vote?

Your entire democracy already hinged, once, on the integrity of that milquetoast and some hella good fortune.

subego has already said that because it didn't happen, it couldn't have happened.

[subego]

I did?

This sounds like a misunderstanding.

[Laminar]

https://forums.macnn.com/showthread....82#post4423182

[subego]

That says “we did not come close to Trump declaring martial law because he neither had the political strength to enforce it, nor the public support to make up for his lack of political strength”.

Of course, anything is possible, however the conditions were stacked against it enough I judged it as extremely unlikely.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

What would have happened had he simply not certified the vote?

My understanding is the Senate would then appoint a new President of the Senate, which they can do, and the new President of the Senate would certify.

[andi*pandi]

Aaand who would a republican majority appoint to certify? Isn't this why Mike Pence was almost hanged? And had not Mike Pence had that ounce of self-restraint (after consulting with Dan Quayle of all people) wouldn't we be in a Trump presidency right NOW?

[subego]

It would have only taken 3 defectors for the Republican majority to have been meaningless.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by subego 

It would have only taken 3 defectors for the Republican majority to have been meaningless.

It doesn’t strike you as..extraordinary that the difference between a fascist dictatorship and American democracy was decided by a single man’s strength of character (after talking to Dan Fucking Quayle), with the safeguard after that having been your personal conviction that three of the Party a heartbeat away from absolute power would „defect“?

With a half-naked guy with facepaint and a funny hat leading a mob yelling that they’ll murder you if you don’t vote accordingly?

Tr*mp wasn’t kidding when he called the U.S. a fucking „banana republic“, apparently

[subego]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

It doesn’t strike you as..extraordinary that the difference between a fascist dictatorship and American democracy was decided by a single man’s strength of character (after talking to Dan Fucking Quayle), with the safeguard after that having been your personal conviction that three of the Party a heartbeat away from absolute power would „defect“?

You say this as if herding defecting Republicans wasn’t Mitch’s full-time job.

[Spheric Harlot]

What are you saying, subego?

[subego]

It was a common occurrence during the Trump administration for the Senate Majority Leader to have to herd Republicans who defected. Romney and Collins specifically.

I’d like to add, while I can understand to some extent the enmity and distrust which the left has for the right, I’m disappointed it’s gotten to the point where someone on the left honestly thinks it would be difficult to find just three Republican senators willing to save democracy.

[Laminar]

Maybe you missed the narrative - the left has already destroyed democracy when they faked millions of votes to get Biden into office. Rejecting his presidency IS saving democracy.

It's also kind of funny seeing you try to play Disappointed Dad after you're okay giving Trump the benefit of the doubt in 2024.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by subego 

It was a common occurrence during the Trump administration for the Senate Majority Leader to have to herd Republicans who defected. Romney and Collins specifically.

I’d like to add, while I can understand to some extent the enmity and distrust which the left has for the right, I’m disappointed it’s gotten to the point where someone on the left honestly thinks it would be difficult to find just three Republican senators willing to save democracy.

The terrifying thing that you're not acknowledging is that your entire democracy would hinge on a random THREE PEOPLE doing the Right Thing (against very real death threats against them and their families) vs. the opportune thing (and all the power and riches that brings).

If that was literally ALL that separated your republic from a fascist dictatorship — don't you think there's something a little bit amiss?

Shouldn't "The World's Greatest Democracy" be just a little bit more robust?

The fact is, your democracy has already been systematically dismantled to the point where it's that easily tipped.

Freedom House’s Global Freedom Index gives countries a score from 0 to 100 each year; 100 indicates the most democratic. In 2015, the United States received a score of 90, roughly in line with countries such as Canada, France, Germany, and Japan. But since then, America’s score has declined steadily, reaching 83 in 2021. Not only was that score lower than every established democracy in Western Europe; it was lower than new or historically troubled democracies such as Argentina, the Czech Republic, Lithuania, and Taiwan.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...norway/675199/

You can be SURE that it's dropped considerably lower since then. That article was written before the president was granted dictatorial immunity for crimes committed in office by a supreme court he bought himself.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Maybe you missed the narrative - the left has already destroyed democracy when they faked millions of votes to get Biden into office. Rejecting his presidency IS saving democracy.

It's also kind of funny seeing you try to play Disappointed Dad after you're okay giving Trump the benefit of the doubt in 2024.

I’m not giving either side’s narrative much truck.

I (honestly) apologize. Disappointed was a poor choice.

Let me try it this way. There is no question in my mind there were three Republican senators willing to save democracy. In fact I believe there were more than three.

If my belief is correct, and yet you still don’t believe it, that makes me concerned. Specifically because, and I apologize for getting all emo on you, but I like you a lot, and I don’t like seeing people I like being weighed down by unfounded distress.


Edit: that last part applies to pretty much everyone here.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by subego 

If my belief is correct, and yet you still don’t believe it, that makes me concerned.

The entirety of Trump's campaign and presidency was spent going, "You can't do that! That's not how the rules work!" and then he fuckin' did the thing anyway. Saying, "This couldn't have happened because the rules wouldn't let it happen," ignores the fact that we all learned that we actually have no idea what the rules are, how the government works, or what's even possible until Trump did it, got away with it, and actually gained support after doing whatever heinous thing he did.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

The entirety of Trump's campaign and presidency was spent going, "You can't do that! That's not how the rules work!" and then he fuckin' did the thing anyway. Saying, "This couldn't have happened because the rules wouldn't let it happen," ignores the fact that we all learned that we actually have no idea what the rules are, how the government works, or what's even possible until Trump did it, got away with it, and actually gained support after doing whatever heinous thing he did.

Oh no — we're all very aware of what the rules are.

What we didn't bank on was people just outright not following them, and/or changing them post-facto.

Impeachment is guilt. That doesn't mean what it's supposed to if enough people just flaunt the rules.

Instigating a coup is treason. That doesn't mean anything if the utterly obvious fact — that PotUS is an office of government — is simply deigned not applicable by corrupt institutions intended to safeguard the construct of rules and laws.

Democracy is already lost if those changes aren't reversed, fast.

[Waragainstsleep]

I've heard there are a lot of Trump sycophant election officers in place this time to refuse to certify any result other than a Trump win. By holding up a single county vote they can hold up an entire state apparently?

[subego]

In hindsight it’s obvious, but I wasn’t expecting such a massive difference in how I perceive the world versus everyone else here.

There’s so little in common I feel like anything I say is going to get interpreted as gaslighting.